Re: The List
This is an opinion about a freakin’ dating list I keep seeing pop up all over social media this week.
Can I just say that as a live-action representation of Claire the Bear, I would love to have a reason to slap on my face, some nice clothes, and go somewhere with a gentleman or woman? With a love life on fire, I am a spectator on the subject of dates. I’m looking back at my dating days in my 20s and part of my early 30s and let me tell ya — I’ve never been “too good” to go to certain places. Now, don’t get me wrong — if something really isn’t my thing, I’ll speak up if I can. While there are some places I don’t like, I don’t think I’d berate my date about them. I’m not going live or dogging them out on social media. (Unless the date goes so far south that Rantin’ Roni comes out, but that’s another Medium piece for another time.)
Some people have it easier, socially and have a lot of room to be able to be so picky. Unfortunately, that’s just how it is. People don’t like to talk about this privilege of beauty, but I’ll be the first to point this out because the most bitter parts of the debate bring it up first.
Preference Is Ok
I’m not torn on this subject. I’d rather stop somebody from spending money on tickets for a game than sit there smiling and lying like I’m having a good time. I’ve been to a few sports events, and they’re not my cup of tea. I was thankful for the opportunity, but not so much for the wait of trying to leave the arena and possibly falling down the stairs to get there. No comment on the overpriced food and getting lost on the way back. My attention span and sports do not get along.
Certain restaurants are a solid no for me just because they don’t agree with my old body. I’m not a 20-something anymore. This big ol’ machine will let me know if something is too salty, too cheesy, or just flat-out detrimental for her. For example — Olive Garden. Smells nice, looks nice, and tastes like a pile of salt. Maybe I went too many times in high school. Maybe getting older has changed the way I taste food. Regardless, the only thing I’d be able to have at OG would be a salad and a glass of water. Possibly a breadstick. Red Lobster — quality has degraded, side dish portions are meh, and the bread isn’t even the same.
I’m not telling anyone not to eat at these places anymore. I’m not saying I’m too good for these places, either. If I can stop you from wasting your money (and me spending 4 hours in the bathroom playing that fruit game while I try and get better) then I’m going to speak up! Isn’t that what people keep saying, anyway? Speak up and don’t lead anyone on. You can have a preference for something without making the other person feel like dirt. I think that’s the part where a lot of us tend to fall short. You can’t avoid a reaction, but surely you can find a way to say “This is not for me.”
Hold Up, Wait A Minute…
On the flip side, I’m not a baddie with a full social card. I’m not picky, and I can be open-minded. So…there are some things on this list that I personally would not mind as a first date setting. It all depends on how long we’ve been talking, how interested we are in one another, and the time of year. (Trust me, my planning introvert girlies understand this one. We like to prepare ourselves and our outfits.)
I think number 22 is a bit vague. “Somewhere that requires a long drive” could be somewhere cool, like that time my ex took me to a super fancy brunch place about 40–50+ minutes away from his apartment. I had my first mimosa because of his trip. Granted the Atlanta sun tore my arm up in that traffic, I had a great time once we got there. However, I get it — you watch enough murder mysteries and suddenly you wonder if you’re being taken out to the field. If you don’t know where you are and something goes down, you might be stranded. Some people aren’t open to adventures like that. Especially not on the first date. First dates are supposed to be easygoing and simple. (Should be, anyway.)
The same applies to a house date. I’ve never been subjected to one, but I do recall that my dad did at least one when I was a kid. It wasn’t just some ol’ sloppy date. It was a gorgeous setup he put together with his best tablecloth, blood-red roses, fresh lobster tails, jasmine rice, crabcakes, soft music, candles, shining flatware, and crystal glasses — ol’ pop went all out for this lady. Granted yours truly popped in to say hello (I was a nosy little something), but this wasn’t the only date he took her on. They were two working people who wanted a laid-back evening. The thing was this: they knew each other, or at least of each other. Or else, she probably would not have come to our house. He didn’t just randomly pick her out somewhere and say “Come to my house, woman…”
I think that house dates are okay for established couples. Or folks who have a relationship beyond strangers in public. Especially homebodies who are a bit more in tune with what the other partner likes. A home date can be just as comfortable with a set mood. As for a first date, I’m not sure about that. Just because you don’t know what the other person expects. It’s more of a safety issue than it is a so-called “stuck up” thing. Again, murder documentaries.
That’s A Hell no, Pal.
What can I say about number eight? Eight has some weight. I’ve been reading a lot of commentary about this list and a lot of it is huffing about nobody wanting to date, or why women don’t deserve to date ever again. I want you to think about this, though — if that’s all you can afford, you’re going to run into a lot of people who don’t want to date you. That is a painful reality of being broke and trying to be social at the same time. It’s possible to find people who don’t care and will go on a fast food date. It’s a rarity, and I wouldn’t bet on finding such a person. If you can afford it, a little extra effort to take somebody somewhere nice doesn’t hurt. There are fast food adjacent places (diners, rare drive-ins, niche restaurants, All-American eateries) that go easy on the wallet and still serve up a good time.
Looking back into my 20s, fast food dates were definitely a whole thing because at the time I adored that person. But we had been together for at least a year. I personally am not a white linen tablecloth type of person, but understand the desire to go out to nice places. It’s nice, I’ve been exposed to a lot of it, but it’s not on my list of necessities. I don’t have to have it for every date, and would not be expecting it for a first. Especially not in this economy. But alas, I’m old and was raised by Boomers. The desire to scrimp and save for nice times is hard-wired into my system.
It’s ok to have standards. A lot of people are coming out swinging because women are pushing some pretty high ones, but if that woman isn’t even your type, how can you get mad at her for what she desires? She isn’t the only woman in this world. You’ll find some very laid-back chicks in this world who’ll ride with you, period. It doesn’t have to be about her not knowing her worth or setting the bar super low — it’s just her being a different kind of woman.
I understand that the mentality of “what can you do for me financially” is draining the dating pool experience, but it almost seems like some people get a kick out of misery and repeating the same things over and over. If the baddies want Michelin-Star experiences and you’re not financially there, how can you get online and berate them? Then at the same time, have the nerve to look over/cast aside the women who are down for a deep-budget experience? Ahh yes, preference. The word abused to the heavens. I guess we all want what we want.
In terms of “fast food”, I am assuming the list means places where meal deals and size options are the norms. This is why communication is important. In this day and age, however, that could easily become a screencap to dog somebody out. You say no, and suddenly you’re a jerk on TikTok. Wow, maybe dating is impossible.
You’re Taking Me Where?
Don’t surprise people with religious events. PLEASE. I beg of you, do not surprise people with church dates and family events. This one is a hard no, and I agree with both of these list entries. Especially if you don’t know where a person stands concerning faith-based events. With the family thing, why are you trying to introduce somebody to your people so soon? You don’t even know where things are going, and here you are putting them on the spot to meet your kinfolk. It can be awkward. Even worse if you have an opinionated or possessive mother/aunt/nana/sister without a filter.
There’s nothing wrong with church, but some people have issues with it. It’s also a place where certain forms of PDA are frowned upon. You can’t exactly canoodle in the sanctuary. Maybe the basement ice cream social has a bit more to offer in terms of fun, but again — if you don’t know where that person stands religiously, don’t do it. Especially if you’re trying to convince them to convert or something. Oh honey, that’s a terrible date.
At least if you ask, maybe you’ll find out of that person would not mind visiting and worshipping with you. It might end up being a great thing. Still, ask. Don’t just pull up to the church parking lot and think it’s ok. Don’t roll up on that dinner hall talkin’ about “we’re gonna meet my ma!”
Ohhhmigawd, I Love Chipotle!
Chipotle is my liiiiiiife. I would technically label Chipotle as fast food, but it’s not necessarily that fast. It takes some time to get those bowls and burritos together. I don’t want to say “This is a young thing”, because anyone can go to Chipotle. I will say this — it’s a specific thing. If your date is someone well-known to be obsessed with Chipotle, a date/pick-up run might make their day. If you know for a fact that this person just really likes Tex-Mex food, I personally would push a bit more to think outside the box and find a nice place that isn’t a wallet-killer.
I personally would have no issue, just for the simple fact that I like Chipotle and rarely get to go. I live in a small town where the nearest one is about an hour away. The downside is that once I have it, I’m tired. I’m not trying to do anything else after a bowl but go home and sleep.
I’ve noticed with a lot of the list comments that people don’t want to go the extra mile for dates. Especially not ones that are supposed to be casual. The idea of “casual” may be taken a bit too loosely. Is that why people are getting mad about these standards? You may very well find a date who doesn’t mind the likes of Denny’s, Waffle House, or IHOP, but if you’re taking her somewhere she could probably go herself…ehhh…I kinda see where the women are coming from.
To come out swinging in the comments about how some of us shouldn’t be so picky based on age, weight, and looks isn’t really helping the case. We’re online all day looking for everything else. I don’t think it’s that difficult to raise the bar a bit above fast food for a date. That’s what Google and Yelp are for.
Besides, I thought Waffle House was the kind of place for after the club. I keep hearing and seeing that when people discuss it online. You go there when you’re plastered and wanna see some potential drama. You go there not for the high-end cuisine, but for the drama. I haven’t been to a Denny’s in ages, and the last time I went to IHOP, they found a way to BURN my waffles a bit. What if your date is on a diet? What works for you might not gel well with them. Some people don’t want a breakfast meal after 11 AM.
Tried and True, Might not be For You
Red Lobster used to be thee joint back in the day. I can’t speak of its greatness these days, because my last trip was out of my control and super blah. I didn’t fuss about it in public, but the ride home was pretty much a mutual agreement between my boyfriend at the time and myself. While that trip wasn’t really a date, I was disappointed with the spread! The first thing that came to mind:
Because, girl…really? Bland fish. Salty sides, wack bread, watered-down booze, and lobster that looked like it had seen better days. In strong comparison to the Red Lobster of the olden days, I was very much in a Wanda mood. I was ret to go. This wasn’t my first disappointment with the place, having been served dismally small crab legs and shrimp years ago at a hometown branch in Chicago. My family and I switched restaurants after the noticeable decline and didn’t look back. Quality is everything!
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with getting a feel for a date and trying to see where they’d like to go. Sure, feelings might be a bit bruised if you realize they’re too expensive and you’re no longer interested in the meetup — but isn’t that the whole point of dating around?
As for casual spots such as Chili’s, Applebee’s, and the various wing places, there are women who would not mind going to these establishments. Amidst the sea of commentary of women agreeing with this list, I saw so many more beautiful faces who had no problem putting on their shoes and grabbing their purses for a little casual dining grub. Plenty of women said they would love to throw down at any of those places for a first date. To the other women who say this isn’t their thing, I’m not putting them down. I personally do not mind the boneless chicken balls and reasonably priced Sangria whatsits. I’m not turning my nose up at cheesy appetizers and adorable snack tiers. I like casual dining. That’s totally my lane and I’ve got the hips to prove it.
The same applies to buffet places. I dare to conjure up my GA ex again. The man knew a lot of good places to eat. We butted heads but he kept me fed. He fussed and sniped, but my plate was never empty. We went on a couple of buffet dates. Granted we were established(ish) at that point, but they were still fairly nice places to eat. I miss him telling me to gather Sweet Tomato coupons in the weekly flyers. I miss those tasty salads. Sigh.
I’ve never been to Cheesecake Factory a day in my life, and that place looks pretty nice. I don’t see the problem with it, because…hello…cheesecake…legendary appetizers! But then again, that’s just me. I am not the speaker of all women everywhere. If the ol’ CF is beneath you, then it’s beneath you. Turn the page, and wash your hands.
Sporty Date Adventures
I’ll be direct with you — take me to a gym for a date and you’re getting a Chi-Town smackdown. If your date is a health nut and the gym is somewhere nice, I guess maybe press your luck and offer to get her a protein smoothie afterward. Bowling can be fun. I would be wide open to that experience. (Far, far away from other people. I tend to have BOUNCING bowling balls that travel.)
I don’t have a sporty bone in my body, save for the very short period in high school where I killed it playing volleyball in gym class. If you want to see an awkward fat lady trying to play sportsball, please seek out your streaming app of choice. Ya ain’t gonna catch me in my active wear looking like a fool. I get that a sporty date is a time to let your hair down and have fun, but I’m just not quite ready to let my date see me all sweaty and messy.
If my date had the nerve to be so bold as to make a suggestion out of concern, I would not be flattered. I would be working beyond blue, verbally. It’s all about the presentation of the offer. If some handsome man said “Hey let’s go for a walk and chat along the way”, I really wouldn’t see that as a date. That’s hanging out. If he added something lighthearted and expressed a desire to get to know me, I would see that as a date. This is, of course, a sharp contrast between just setting up a sporty thing without telling me.
I wouldn’t mind developing a friendship with a fitness partner. An accountability buddy. If something buds from that, dating around a sporty lifestyle might not be so bad.
Coffee Talk
Ok! This is where Mother Roni has to disagree with the girlies. 100% down the line, sorry to numbers 17 and 18. A coffee/cafe date is by far one of the most low-impact, easygoing, versatile styles of casual dating. Nowadays, there are niche-specific places that sell more than coffee for a reasonable price and a lovely experience. This is a date without a lot of fluff. I won’t say everyone likes coffee, but dang — you can’t work through small talk and some tarts? You can’t hang with some lemonade and a chocolate croissant in the shade? Some cafes have healthy options for those not seeking a lot of sugar, salt, or carbs.
My first date with the GA ex was at Dunkin. I sat and listened to that bright-eyed hunk of a man go on and on about how he’d fix the flop Jem live-action movie. I had a great time listening to him while enjoying my 2-buck strawberry frosted donut. Years prior, I went on quite a few coffee dates. They were easy-going, get-to-know-you meetups that gave me a feeling for the potential person. There was little to no pressure, and baby got her java fix for the day.
I guess I’m having a hard time understanding why this kind of date is bottom-tier, just because I know there are high-end cafes across this great nation that have exactly what someone of taste would be looking for. Those accustomed to high society can avoid us peons at Starbucks and still have a nice time. As for me, I’d love a cute little coffee date at the local java house in town. No big whoop.
And The Rest!
As you, the reader, are probably tapping the “Wrap it up” box, allow me to address some other dating ideas that made the list. I don’t know how many women came together to collaborate on this list, but apparently, it was enough to create an internet-wide debate.
Ice cream dates: adorable for some, but probably a nightmare for a lactose-intolerant person. Even at a nice little parlor, you better hope they have some non-dairy options. Definitely an easier date, but I guess it depends on where you take the person. Some grown folks don’t want small talk and a scoop.
Movies and Movie Night: Times are hard for some, so streaming isn’t exactly too bad of an idea. However, not the best idea for a first date…unless y’all are doing the ol’ frick-frack Netflix and chill. You have to understand that when you invite somebody over to watch movies, it’s a 50/50 toss-up. You’re either actually doing that, or somebody’s trying to get in your pants. It could start out innocently enough and end up blossoming into something else. Also — ID Channel paranoia makes it very hard for me to want to just show up at somebody’s house for a first date.
With established couples, it can be a lot of fun. Let me conjure ol’ GA ex again — great movie nights at home with this man. Granted I hated Sausage Party, but his Marvel selections were great. His constant push for me to get into JJBA proved to be the best move. His Netflix obsession saved a lot of dollars. We ordered out, got in bed, and laughed it up over giant Japanese ramen bowls and sushi specials.
You can’t really talk in the movies. I mean…you can, but it’s rude as hell. Unless you’re in one of those super cool theaters with the couch seats and/or booze, movie dates really sorta suck unless you’re young. Sure, you can discuss things afterward I guess. Maybe the tension of being in the dark is sorta hot to people. Honestly, it’s just a green light for me to shove popcorn and smuggled candy in my face and not be judged. I’m not exactly trying to paw in the dark at or on my date.
Clubs, Bars, Hookah Whatsits: Not everybody is a clubber. Some people like lounges. Some people don’t wanna smoke stuff. I technically shouldn’t be smoking a dig darn thing, but sometimes a sista needs a Kool to take the edge off. I’ve never been to a Hookah bar but was interested in a guy who would go from time to time.
I was genuinely surprised to see the clubs on the list, seeing as so many people post themselves in clubs and bars all the time. Well, they aren’t the only people in the world. For as many people who can make it work, I guess there are so many more who don’t want to have that as their date setting. Unless you’re talking about a venue with reasonable sound levels, I can understand not wanting to go clubbing for a first date. Single people go clubbing to hook up. Screaming over music and overpriced drinks sounds like a terrible time.
The bar scene is a bit different. There are quite a few nice bars out in the world that cater to a variety of people. A tapas bar might not be so bad for a first date. Never leave your drink unattended (dating 101) and ease up on the liquor if you know you’re a lightweight. There’s also this — a bar or a club is a piss-poor place for an alcoholic or recovering alcoholic. I’d hope and pray that someone setting up a date would be aware of something like that.
In larger cities, bar dates can be great. A lot of them offer atmospheres that go beyond the sleazy scenes we see on television, offering seductively lit spots that you almost want to gatekeep from the rest of the world. If it’s not your date’s thing, don’t pressure them into it!
Final Thoughts
Dating has never been easy. Modern-day dating seems to be a tangled mess of preference, superiority, and “what can you do for me” attitude. There are also a lot of other gray area factors that up the ante concerning difficulty. I was a bit worn out looking at that list, wondering if I had ever settled in the past. I don’t think I settled. I never have been a bells-and-whistles kind of person. The more low-key, the better. I try and seek out partners who are on the same level. Save the expensive dates for big events. Have an adventure without breaking the bank.
Maybe the men in my life settled for me. Was I the stepping stone all along, and my standards are ground level? Is my being “down-to-earth” riddled with low self-esteem? All potential jerks aside, I know my worth. I’m…not out here tripling it with a crown on my head, but I know how to communicate with people. I know when I just wanna hook up and when I want to try something a bit deeper. I’ve done enough deep-diving and fast leaping to appreciate taking things slowly.
Other women seem to be seeking out far more, and that’s what works for them. From my point of view, the list really isn’t that much out of pocket. It’s a little pointed, and that’s what makes it such a touchy subject. When you’re pressured to think outside the box, sometimes folks have the tendency to fight back. The list is plenty messy, but some of the responses make it seem like it’s some outrageous list of wallet-crunching demands. There will be plenty of very bitter podcasts and attention-seeking TikTok lives about it in the future.
It doesn’t have to be an age thing. I know some older women who wouldn’t mind some of those places and others who say “Not for me, dig deeper.” Coming for these younger girls isn’t exactly fair. Keep in mind that they have aunties and cousins who have schooled them on dating. My own grandmother — who was part of the Greatest Generation — was spitting womanist and feminist wisdom to me that some would consider to be highly progressive for someone of her generation. None of it was about hating men but setting guidelines on how to be respected and treated.
Quality dates are important on both ends. Communication is key. Do people not have those like/dislike conversations anymore? Am I dating myself? I spent hours on instant messenger chats telling potential paramours the things I did and did not like. I tried to weed out game players on dating websites by completely filling out my profile from top to bottom.
I never shamed a date for where he was or was not able to take me. In the end, when I really liked somebody, it was all about being with them. Even if it was in a dark theater or across a water-spot-stained table at the local Chili’s. We sat, we talked, and I snuck social media foodie pics.
I guess you just have to push to make it work, or keep looking until you get what you want.
About the Authoress: Veronica is a native Chicagoan who currently lives in the small town of Paris, TN. By daylight, she works for Telus AI International as an Ad Evaluator. By nightfall, she is a word-processing machine, fueled by dark roast coffee and Spotify playlists. Ever the aspiring writer, her self-published work can be purchased on Amazon. [Contact Info]
